Guns. Lots of Guns. (New SoR build w/ Guide)

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Derived from
Guns. Lots of Guns. 0 0 0 1.0
Inspiration for
Guns. Lots of Guns. (New SoR build w/ Guide) 13 10 0 3.0

Foz 778

Changes

Deciding which 2-cost upgrade to cut was hard, but ultimately I feel Jetpack is the right call. The combination of all modify sides, , and a that may do nothing in any given match holds it back from being as generally useful as the others. Swiftness felt a little off at 2; and given that it's less versatile than Tactical Mastery I felt like I wanted to see it less often. We Have Them Now is a card I feel can do a ton of lifting in a Dodge-less meta, and there's not a lot that's played that will remove more than 1 of the dice. The Best Defense, as mentioned below, is just a house against decks with 2 big character dice. Poe, Palpatine, Luke, Vader all fear this card.

Introduction

Given that the BEAST just brought this deck to the forefront again, I'm having a new look at Jango/Veers which was one of the first big Destiny decks. I was among the earliest people brewing and building this in the beginning days, so it's honestly a bit of nostalgia to revisit it and give it a makeover for current times.

Mulligan

Generally you want a 1-drop upgrade turn one, and also an event or two that are good against the opposing deck. If you don't have those things, throw back anything else to try to find them. Keep/dig for Disarm if you expect Sith Holocron. Dug in is one of the best cards in the Poe match. Die removal is a priority against Palpatine - Galactic Emperor, and very nice to have against many decks. If they have an 18+ point character, digging for as much removal as possible is the plan, and/or Dug in in matches where you don't expect Vibroknife. It's really common to throw back 2-cost upgrades as you usually don't want to spend your only resources on them, and there are enough that you will draw them later.

Play Philosophy

Stack Jango up with most of the upgrades, his free activation gives a big advantage to anything he is carrying. Redeploy upgrades can go on whoever they're focusing since they'll just move over anyway. Roll Veers out whenever it's convenient - early if you plan to use his dice for He Doesn't Like You. Hold him back until Jango is activated if you plan to use Tactical Mastery, which you'll commonly play after Jango activates so you can roll Veers and resolve immediately. If doing that, don't forget you can fix a to 2 damage w/ Bait and Switch as an ambush play if any of the dice are on . You want to wait for an opponent activation to roll Jango in for free, so play out Dug In, FILP, and/or upgrades if they haven't activated yet.

Deck Design

A fair number of the old upgrades remain. DH-17 Blaster Pistol is still your best 1-cost. F-11D Rifle, Holdout Blaster, and Jetpack are some of the best 2 ranged upgrades in the business. New upgrades include DT-29 Heavy Blaster Pistol which may even be preferred due to having no pay sides and a usable , and Imperial Discipline which is a card I'm trying out as a 3rd 1-drop. It's debatable whether that slot should be On The Hunt, Promotion, or Imperial Discipline which all have very similar dice, but I felt the prospect of turning Veers to held the most value of the 3.

Salvage Stand is straight up lifted from the BEAST's build. I haven't played this yet so I can't say how the timing will work out (it will regularly trigger when you roll in Jango). In theory you can hit enemy resources before they would play removal, and simply having the card in play encourages the enemy to burn up resources before Jango activates, which should help keep our vulnerable rolls (often anchored to only 1 or 2 black sides) safer from disruption.

On the same wavelength as Salvage Stand, Bait and Switch is a card also mainly aimed at Jango's resource sides. This will typically fix you directly into 2 , and given Jango rolls 55% of the time it's useful in nearly every game. You can hardly ask for more than +2 damage from a 0-cost ambush card.

Disarm, Dug in, He Doesn't Like You, and Tactical Mastery are cards carrying over from my old version of the deck. Cost-effective damage mitigation and action cheating is the plan here. I have swapped in One-Quarter Portion for Electroshock because it hits anything (there are several decks using characters with 3-damage sides) and it isn't tied to either character being alive. Considering The Best Defense... in place of something, because it just mauls lists with only 2 important dice like Poe and Palpatine. "I take 3 damage on Veers and remove all your dice that matter" is a huge win in many matches. Possible cuts to fit it are Disarm or 1x Swiftness.

Doubt is a new inclusion that fits like a glove here - anything with good value for 0 is exactly what this deck wants so you can devote more to playing upgrades.

Friends in Low Places replaces Probe and I feel is vastly better. You pull the card you want to hit instead of taking a chance and perhaps getting nothing out of it. You also get complete knowledge of opponent's hand, not just 2 cards. Way better at finding problem cards like It's a Trap!, Electroshock, Hit and Run, etc.

Swiftness is another new card I'm trying out. Same basic use as Tactical Mastery - action cheating. It doesn't spot which is a plus, but requires the first of the 2 actions to be a card play. Probably not quite as flexible, but I felt the deck could use some more consistency in finding action cheating. If it doesn't pan out, it will go down to 1 or 0.

The last major change is the Battlefield. Given the speed we're trying to play at and the relatively low value of dice we might leave behind to claim early, I feel a move to Carbon-freezing Chamber - Bespin is in order. The deck used to play Frozen Wastes - Starkiller Base, but with Fast Hands and various action cheating everywhere in the meta, the likelihood there is a character die to remove is vastly decreased these days. Instead, we can remove their character die from next turn. Most decks are hurt by this far more than Jango/Veers, because Jango/Veers character dice are actually not all that powerful. On the other hand with Palpatine, Poe, Vader, and Luke having entire decks built to support them, CFC is a huge threat against many enemies.

Watch List

This is the spot for things I have my eye on. Potential cuts include 1x Doubt or 1x He Doesn't Like You. Considering 1 more Imperial Discipline for more consistency in having a 1 upgrade. Discipline lends more consistency to Salvage Stand and the ability to remove the die to turn a Veers die adds much more usefulness than most of the 1-cost upgrades; it's good no matter what it rolls.

9 comments

the BEAST 192

I agree that carbon freezing-chamber is a better battlefield and I'll definitely try it out. For me, one copy of the best defense... works really well especially against Poe/Maz and Palpatine. I think I like on the hunt for it's special, but imperial discipline is good as well. One question - doubt or unpredictable? At this point, I'm not quite sure which is better between having them to resolve a die or to have ambush... One more thing - why not we have them now? Just curious; thanks for replying.

Foz 778

@the BEAST Yeah it's a toss-up for On The Hunt. The is definitely better if you are going to pay 1 to remove a die, but I feel like we probably can't afford to do that most times. That leaves it removing s, which you still see some of but much less since Vibroknife is everywhere. It also relies on actually landing on , which Imperial Discipline does not. Another less obvious consideration is that ID has 2 sides which helps trigger Salvage Stand. But yeah, season to your own taste.

Doubt and Unpredictable fill different functions. Doubt is dedicated removal. Unpredictable I would tend to use for fixing my own rolls, though it could be irritating to an opponent to have a die rerolled. The time cost is a consideration though. Doubt definitely does more, but I'm not sure how often the action cost will matter.

We Have Them Now could be good, but the 2 cost is really hard to swallow. I'd be more comfortable playing it now than in this deck's old days for sure - Dodge used to be everywhere to counter blaster decks, but the meta is enough melee that you don't really see it any more. Still, it's pretty rough turning all your dice and then passing to opponent. Defensive Position is a thing in several decks and sweeps your field in that situation. This card would be amazing if it had ambush, but the Swiftness->WHTN play costs 3 which seems largely infeasible. I will consider it more though, it could be good. Probably cutting some upgrades if it makes the list, you can't have too many 2-cost things running around.

the BEAST 192

@Foz Yeah, I'll have to test both imperial discipline and on the hunt to see which one I like better.

As for we have them now, the two counters would be dodge and a combo of lockdown and defensive position. The thing is, if they don't have two red characters, they won't be able to use the second option. So now that dodge isn't in the meta, we have them now really could catch your opponent off guard...

Foz 778

I should probably read the cards. Defensive Position basically won't ever be played against We Have Them Now because WHTN also requires controlling the battlefield, which I had missed before. There are some decks that could support Lockdown, but I seriously doubt any competitive decks play it so Defensive Position shouldn't be a concern. Now I'm much more on board with this plan.

So it probably has to go in place of a blaster to maintain reasonable cost curve in the deck. Which do we get rid of?

the BEAST 192

@Foz Just realized that lockdown is villain which means you can't play it with defensive position... As for removing an upgrade, I think WHTN could replace imperial discipline...but if we want to remove a 2 upgrade, I'd go for jetpack or dt-29. I personally like playing with 2 WHTN, but I think just one could work perfectly fine as well.

plark 1

Why no fast hands though?

the BEAST 192

@plark If Jango gets damage, you will be able to resolve it since he activates when an opponent character activates...

Foz 778

In order to understand if Fast Hands belongs here, I've constructed a table of all possible roll results from the 4 character dice. Provided I have done this correctly, the following is the frequency of unmodified sides:

  • 4 - 16/1296 = ~1%
  • 3 - 128/1296 = ~10%
  • 2 - 384/1296 = ~30%
  • 1 - 512/1296 = ~40%
  • 0 - 256/1296 = ~20%

As you can see, this is a deck that will require some re-rolling and or die manipulation in order to do the best with its rolls. The main problem with Fast Hands, then, is it commonly removes unmodified sides from the pool which blaster dice and sometimes Veers' dice with modified sides need in order to resolve. You can reroll a lot to hopefully turn up more unmodified sides, but its faster if you don't have to (by not removing 1 with Fast Hands). The next most common side to see is , and if you're not turning those dice to damage with a card effect, it's probably best to take the - it saves time re-rolling and we certainly play enough costly cards to use up whatever we can get.

If you assume you're not usually going to use Fast Hands on , that leaves either and on Veers or and on Jango. It could save time here and there to resolve one of those things, but overall I don't think it's worth playing for such a narrow use.

Scactha 719

I also tinker with the SoR version of this and imho it´s all about We Have Them Now, preferably coupled with Swiftness or Tactical Mastery, as although there´s plenty of dice it´s almost all 1s or 2s. T1 gun into T2 roll out and then turn dice into 10+ by Ambush speed on the second action is nasty.

The other tech I´ve grown to like is Flame Thrower and Bait and Switch.

Finally a single Cheat to get back either dice turning card from the discard at the right moment.